Combat Accuracy and ex-spurts.

Boy there are some opinionated people ex-spurts out there.
Combat accuracy is the term used by some as to what accuracy is necessary to get the job done, down a person, to stop an assailant.

It’s also very self righteously derided by some ex-spurts as a person who shoots with little accuracy. One of the spray and pray brigade, the “throw enough lead in the general direction and something will hit”, type of person.

Yet it really annoys me when some ex-spurts then say “those who can’t take the centre of a target out at 25 yards shouldn’t be allowed to carry a weapon”. In my humble opinion such arrogance is stunning (let alone stupid), and here’s why.

Question.
What’s the qualifying standard for a police officer with a standard issue pistol?
Hell let’s go further and ask what the minimum qualification is for a service issue pistol used by a serviceman? I’ve no idea nowadays but do you best those figures?
Take a round of applause if you do.

All leading up to:-
If all the above are capable and qualified at 25 yards or whatever with a pistol, why do some use so much ammunition in the field and still miss, occasionally maim, or just take out the bystanders?

Range accuracy means jack-shit if you are forced to deploy (aka draw and shoot) your weapon at short notice or in response to an ambush on the streets while addressing a fast-moving target in less than range conditions i.e. somewhere dark, unsafe, and in a dynamic scenario.

Question.
What’s the average range of a gunfight using pistols?
Try under 15 feet and most of the time multiple shots are fired injuring milk cartons or crisp packets in 7-11’s and seldom the bad (or good guys).

When I was taught to use a pistol (and no it was slightly after they retired flintlocks) we all shot little holes into pretty little paper targets, concentrating on grip, stance, grouping, and the mechanics of reloading, clearing jams, fire with movement, from cover, all to the usual rhetoric of ‘centre mass’. I thought I was reasonable at that, so did they, and I passed qualification WHICH MEANT JACK SHIT in real life.

An experienced ‘acquaintance’ once said to me “the best range is no range so just ram the gun into the person and keep pulling the trigger until that person drops”. Know what, that works. He also said “Just keep shooting until the bastard drops. Then keep going until he doesn’t move”. Know what, that works too.

25 yards to a couple of mm, if that.
Correct me if I’m wrong here but I believe that some people (probably not ex-spurts) still teach that a weapon is best kept covert until deployed. Just like a knife. They also teach that you only deploy if someone is armed and/or invades your personal space or social space if they are running at you.

A challenge (but only for the ex-spurts).
I haven’t fired a pistol for many, many years.
My eyes are old and tired, arthritis is in my trigger finger.
My mobility is bordering on shite.

BUT I’m perfectly happy to have a go, AT 50 YARDS,
IF YOU WILL HOLD THE TARGET.
After all I should miss. No practice and all!

pistoltarget

Only $10 says it’ll get ‘interesting’
for you by my second shot.

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11 Responses to Combat Accuracy and ex-spurts.

  1. Rifleman III says:

    William Butler “Wild Bill” Hickok, as I have read, could not hit targets, but he sure as hell could kill men.
    Hickok is the Father of Police Combat. All tactics and training are based off of him.

  2. jlm990 says:

    In my profession I hear it all.Americans are obsessed with “accuracy” which is not necessarily a bad thing in it’s own right. But as you say, mix in the elements that will transpire in the real world (fear, fatigue, low light or darkness etc) and it is no longer pristine range conditions. I once ran a training program for a large American city PD SWAT team. These cats were proud as the dickens when they smoked the course of fire I laid out. I then had them shoot it over. After a one mile run. Some pretty sad faces then. Accuracy VS speed. A combination of the two is helpful. That comes from repetitive training and often luck. Murphy will homestead on your shoulder. When I was a sniper instructor, Minute of Angle was the standard goal. For general use, I agree with Gabe Suarez’s concept of “Minute of Man”. Just hit the bastard solid before he hits you.And keep doing it until he is no longer a threat. We had a joke in Nam that it wasn’t the bullet with your name on it we were worried about. It was the one addressed ” To whom it may concern”
    (and yes, I keep Mr. Glock concealed as much as possible. I prefer to be the armed Gray Man)
    Just my 2

    • What we have done, seen, and felt, is the difference.
      That and I sort of knew you and Mr. Glock worked that way.

      As for 1 MOA? Best I could consistently achieve was 2.
      Only at 500 yards that was plenty good enough for task.

      What I don’t understand though is the mindset of these ex-spurts.
      After telling everyone that they are basically shit, they take a couple of hundred bucks a day off them to make them into what precisely? And people fall for it every time!

      Personally, and a note to the little people of life (no disrespect meant), I’d seek the quiet professional.
      The guy who doesn’t use blue barrels as standard as you can never find them on the streets!

      IMHO it’s impossible to teach real life scenario in a sterile range setting. You know that pal.
      When practice goes out, in the rain, cold, with sundown approaching, it aids your shooting ‘experience’.
      Where practice is a ‘Hogans alley’ ETR type range with rock music screaming in your ears, flickering lights, and plenty of distraction (and a little flame and CS gas), that’s going to improve your real life shooting.

      To shoot on target under stress in less than idea conditions is what so many ex-spurts won’t teach.
      Why is that?

      Finally I did like your swat team ‘experience’.
      Made me chuckle.
      By adding one tiny bit of stress they flopped.
      That experience needs to be broadcast to the world as, in a nutshell, it exposes the inadequateness of ‘state’ training.

      Keep safe.

  3. gamegetterII says:

    Most people won’t hit a damn thing if they have to run just 50 yds and do 25 push ups before attempting to hit the target.
    I’ve seen guys miss a 6×6 bull elk at 25-30 yds after having to hike a couple hundred yds uphill in the Rocky mountains. Elk are big critters-kinda hard to miss.
    Seen hunters with very expensive custom rifles with $3,000.00 worth of scope on them miss a 9″ paper plate at 300 yds. Also seen guys with what I call well used hunting rifles shoot 3″ groups at 300 yds after running the 50 yds and doing 25 push ups.
    If you train similar to the real world you’ll be able to shoot under stress.

    • My point exactly.
      Get out of the sterile range and do something practical in low light with plenty of distraction.

      • gamegetterII says:

        I don’t get why that’s so hard for people to comprehend.
        Anyone who’s been in combat and anyone who’s done any serious backcountry big game hunting understands it.
        The rich guys with the custom rifles didn’t understand why we had them run and do push-ups.
        They thought we were going to just ride horses-well mules for most clients,because mules tolerate inexperienced riders -and they were going to get off their mule,take a few steps and shoot an elk.
        Most didn’t even get it that the 9″ paper plate at 300 yds is about the kill zone on an elk.

      • Two tiers of world my friend.
        They who have done it and they who have the money to pay to play at doing it.

        Only one tier matters in my jaded view.

        There again, without those fools being parted from their money, wouldn’t life be boring.

        I just wish they wouldn’t go out wounding magnificent animals leaving our tier clean up their mess.

        Sometimes as a stalker I’ve been left with a very long hike to put down what a blind man couldn’t have missed but the client did.

        There again I know I’m typing to someone who knows that feeling.

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